Tested PG4 PAL backup. Extracted SS from backup itself with XboxBackupCreator 2.7.0.265, two times. I had two different SS, both marked as "good Kreon" by KreonChecker!!! Then I tried with XDVDMulleter beta10.2, I got the same SS of the second try with XboxBackupCreator. Aleatory fault in first SS extraction? I used the DVD reader of my laptop, an Optiarc AD-7560A. Bye!!!

Noone replied to my question of weather it would be possible to make it so that future version of iXtreme doesnt load unless this check goes sucessfully...??


anyways here are my findings:

I Have 4 Xbox's between me and my friends all of which ran the following games, none of them are banned.


Status - Not banned

Always signed into live while playing.

COD4 - Played very little online, beaten single player (checked= Good)

Orange Box - Played very little online, beaten single player (checked = bad) - played For 2 weeks straight after it came out.

Bioshock - Beaten the whole game 2 times (checked = Good)

Rockband - Beaten the game 3 times on different difficulties (checked = bad) - played almost every day since it came out, before and after the ban wave.

Timeshift - Just tested didnt actually play (checked = bad)

Halo 3 - Played since launch almost every day online (checked = good)

Mass Effect - Beat 2 times pre and post ban wave (total 80+ hours spent playing pre and post ban wave). (checked = bad)

hope that helps

Your fixing it, then autofixing it (which is reinserting bad data again)-defeating the purpose of fixing it.


Just re-rip your game and start from scratch.

easy solution, use origionals. you know the risk, if you cant accept being banned dont mess with your console.
even if you do use verbs there still cheaper than buying origionals.

Right or wrong, I love it when somebody with 18 posts under his belt decides to bitch-slap the whole scene.

Well, he does have a point, there are 2 things you can do with a modded console,
1 play backups offline, if you want to do that, there's no problem at all to re-create the wrong backups. Just use an xtreme firmware and off u go

2 backups on live, well, you always knew the risk here, MS is not dumb and if you need to re-create bad backups, then that's something you have to keep in mind when going with backups on live! And there he has his point, and i can't completely disagree with that

btw, i checked my backups,

seems that i've played one backup with a bad kreon SS while connected to live. this was COD4 PAL

Of course he has a point, that's why I said "right or wrong." I just think it's funny when somebody comes out of the woodwork to put everybody in their place. But I think we all realize and accept the risks when we choose to mod, and that doesn't mean we don't keep trying our best to reduce the risks. Otherwise, C4E and the rest of the brains behind the scene would just quit doing what they do.

thats because everyone already knows the answer. thats exactly what happened last time - when they figured out the stealth stuff; they released a firmware that wouldn't load games that didn't pass the checks. It hasn't been long, be patient and something will be released.

i have two games with bad ss sectors

fifa 2008
halo 3

Fifa i played online before the ban had begun.
I am still not banned.
Drive Hitachi 0079fk.

Here's my tale :

BANNED

Drive : Hitachi-LG 0078 using Ixtreme 1.2 rev2

Last Games Played on Live from 6-10-2007 on :

Stranglehold
Fifa 08
Colin Mcrae Dirt
The Orange Box
Skate
Halo 3

Last played online 23-10-07

Found out I was banned on 02-12-07 after coming back from holiday, not sure as when I was exactly banned.

Yet to verify the games. (Bricked drive by accident )

Will edit my post accordingly.

Regards,

sorry if this has been answered but is it the xbox itself that keeps track of your bad rips or the hdd?

say i have 2 xboxes and i played some bad rips on xbox1 and i move the hdd from xbox1 to xbox2 but only play good rips on xbox2 will my xbox2 be safe from bans?

thanks

My Kreon list!

GOOD

AceCombat(GOOD).bin
Bioshock(GOOD).bin
COD4(GOOD).bin
Fronza2(GOOD).bin
GOW(GOOD).bin
Halo3(GOOD).bin
PGR4(GOOD).bin
Straglehold(GOOD).bin
TimeShift(GOOD).bin
AssassinCreed(GOOD).bin
TheDarkNess(GOOD).bin
Narutu(GOOD).bin

BAD

TheOrangeBox(BAD).bin
Segarally(BAD).bin
MassEffect(BAD).bin

Just adding my two cents:

Bad Rip:

Mass Effect (USA)
CoD4 (PAL)


Good Rip:

Assassins Creed (PAL)
Bioshock (PAL)
HL2 The Orange Box (PAL)
Stranglehold (PAL)
Fifa 08 (PAL)
Skate (PAL)
Halo 3 (USA)
Guitar Hero III (USA)


I have not been banned at the moment. Last played game on Live was Gears of War (original). I have played both Mass Effect and CoD4, but was not connected to Live at the time.

Would updating to Kreon 1.0 stop this bad SS?
Like as a side note, does using the old Kreon firmware result in bad SS?

Can you keep us up to date?




I'd tend to say that Kreon checks is the one that we should refer to first and mulleter iXtreem check (not the online crc check since it's now known that bad crc are in the online database) second.

ok if you agree to the terms and conditions of live and then play offline (network cable not connected) then are you still breaching the terms and conditions of LIVE??
this might explain why some are banned and some are not...?
I will go and read the T&C of Live.

Also m$ could also ban in waves??

Mantis

Hey, Sorry to go a little off topic but i'm a noob in the scene and i'm sure it's a stupid question but i just got my xbox 2 weeks and the guy i bought it off had ixtreme firmware 1.2b (samsung) on it.

My question is can xbox ban me for just logging in to the dashboard(cos of the update)? (he never played online and i only played halo 3 original online)

Thanks in advance

The 1.0 firmware didn't prevent me from getting a bad rip of one of my games.

I can already foresee a wide hunt for Kreon Checked stealth files here... And it appears that the prime and most significant titles for such hunt will be : Halo3, HalfLife 2 TOB and MassEffect.


BAD KREON CHECKED:
-Mass Effect NTSC -P******L
-HalfLife 2 OrangeBox -C***X
-Conan PAL -W***X
-TimeShift NTSC -V****X



If your Xbox ever played backups then it may get banned.

Does this stealth problem also happens when i rip my games with the hotswapping method (using WxRipper) and a normal dvd drive or is it only a kreon problem?

Also i would like to know if i first load an original game disk (while connected to live) and the next time i play the same game using a copy of that game will i also have the possibility to get banned?

Thank you for the replies!

Hey, i was just wondering if there was a way to check the SS of an already burned disc, my CoD4 ISO got deleted for space to fit Skate. *Just checked and its a good ss* But I dont have my CoD4 ISO anymore, and was wondering if there was a way to check the SS without re-ripping it and if its a random bug I dont want the added variable to 2 rips... Plus Verbs are expensive lol

MASS EFFECT
HALO 3
HL2 ORANGE BOX
COD4

ALL GOOD KREON RIPS. I CLOSED ALL APPS EVERYTIME I EXTRACTED THE SS TOO.

!! Kreon Rips or not to blame for the majority of Banning’s!!

I keep a tight circle of friends who all own modded 360 (10) and all games come from the same source
and have passed all kreon checks. Beside from having all the latest Ixtreme firmware, recently only 3 of us have been banned.

Now the question is what separated us from the pack of my friends who are NOT banned?

The difference is that me and my 2 friends where the only ones to play early games will before the official release dates. By doing this we wracked up numerous amounts of Achievements on are accounts while not on live.

Even thought we were not on Live there still is kept records of all of these games we played before well before the release dates.

I mean its pretty obvious to Microsoft that something looks wrong here.

This is what we believe happed to us!
Once connected back to live after many times, your Xbox account can be flagged in there data base for a suspicious console. Believe is or not, this type of program is not uncommon as all bank us something similar to monitor bank accounts suspicious and irregular uses.

Me and my 2 friends all had trouble connecting to Xbox live. After numerous attempts to connect we were banned. Perhaps we failed some sort of test.

Call me crazy I don’t care, I think It has to do with something in the Achievement records.

No need to rerip rips... Just use MULLETER to extract the stealth file and have that SS.BIN file checked through kreon checker.

I have checked all of my backups that have been palyed online with Kreon ss checker and they are all GOOD rips , does this mean that i can continue to use them on xbox live using iXtreme because im not banned yet?

Are only the people who have been banned are the people that have played BAD rips on xbox live meaning people who have only palyed GOOD rips online are ok to carry on playing online?

Call of duty 4 - good rip
PGR4 - good rip
Halo 3 - good rip
Need for speed : pro street - good rip

Please reply , i would like to know because i want to get back on live ASAP

No, your theory is false for many reasons.

First of all:
Many many people play games long before the release dates. And most of them arent banned.

Secondly:
A lot of people get the games before the release date legally by buying them. Every title's release date has been broken by one store or another, sometimes months before the game's release. So banning or even using that as a premise to "check" a console would be dumb since there would be just as many non modded xbox's in the mix as modded ones.

I have 2 xbox's both hitatchi. 1st one had xtreme then iXTREME firmware, it has only ever played 5 backups all with good ss and played on live constantly since last Xmas with those backups. It is not banned (gone through 2 banning periods fine)

The second has only had iXTREME firmware and played the same 5 backups as the first on live. It has played 4 different backups from the first offline but still signed in to XBL and of those 4 one had a bad ss which was "The Orange Box". The second xbox has just been banned last week on its first banning period

So the way I see it :- One xbox played a backup with bad ss offline ( but signed into XBL ) and it got banned.

Hope this info helps

After I was banned I was going through my backups to see which was the bad one. And Mulleter said that my Orange Box and the one on the database didn't match. So I'm guessing this is the reason why, right? So anyway, Mulleter says it changed my to match theirs now, so thats mean mean its fixed?

I agree , ive just logged on to xbox live to do the latest update and there was no problem at all. I have survived both banning sprees on a modded xbox , i have never played a BAD rip and im still not banned so it must mean xbox live still can't detect the iXtreme firmware but can detect the games that are the BAD Kreon rips that have been played on live.

Not sure....Just rerip from the original

I've been told that the problem is not the Kreon, it is the iXtreme firmware. None of these "bad Kreon" rips are bad.

The problem is related to disc jitter and reads of the SS. The 360 measures the angle of the disc which is part of the SS, and of course an angle can be 360 degrees. That means valid values are 0-359 and then you cycle to 0 again. Factor in disc jitter, and if it jitters too far, the disc angle value could go from 359 to 0. The problem is that the iXtreme firmware was not coded with this in mind and instead bumps it to 360 without cycling around, which means the value it reports is invalid. This apparently became an issue with newer discs (around Halo 3) which started using values in the range that might jitter > 359.

If all of the above is true, then failing Kreon Checker isn't necessarily "bad" but rather just a warning that the disc angle is within tolerance of generating a potentially bad value. And the fix will be an updated iXtreme firmware, which C4Eva is supposedly now working on. So don't play "bad" games in the meantime. Games which pass Kreon Checker should be ok, but use your head. I think I'll personally hold off playing until the new firmware is released.

If my information is bad or incomplete, feel free to correct it.

ok, well, I have not played any backups connected to live *no connection source at all when backup is in yet*

and I have 2 games

Skate - checked out fine
CoD4 - came back bad

Hopefully the Xbox doesnt log this and when I re-rip CoD to be right I wont get banned lol

Thanks for the heads up Toddler. I always find your posts very welcome

So no matter if the problem is with Kreon or the iXtreme firmware it's best to not use a backup that appears to have a bad SS.bin?

Any idea why some people are getting good rips of a game that others are getting bad? Mass Effect for example is it just a case of dumping a new SS.bin until a good one is obtained or will the rip be the same i.e. bad everytime?

I haven't been banned (yet?), but I did check some of my games over and these games had bad Kreon rips:

Mass Effect
The Orange Box
Oblivion GOTY Edition

I did play a lot with The Orange Box while on Live but haven't been banned.

ok i just checked all my games......... nba 2k8, simpsons, assasins creed, bioshock, halo 3, cod4 HL 2 orange box and mass effect

only these 2 came with bad kreon mass effect and orange box

i have never connected my xbox to live, i dont even have a live account...... my question is........is it possible that microsoft can detect i played a bad kreon game? or is it only possible for them to detect if i was connected to live

is there any way for me to delete the log that i played mass effect or half life 2 in my xbox?

thanks!

Correct me if I’m wrong but disc jitter was implemented in the Xtreme firmware maybe not iXtreme and Xtreme users also got banns in this second wave.

ive been playing team fortress 2 (orange box),halo 3 and call of duty 4 on live since they were released,they all have bad ss,according to the kreon checker program-and i am NOT BANNED.
i dont have a gold live account,just played in october (i had one free month of gold) and played almost non stop for 3 days(2 weeks ago,the free live festival or whatever).
mass effect also checks out to be bad,and pgr 4.i didnt play these games on live,but i did run them with the ethernet cable plugged in,just to check if there were any updates available for the games.
i have a samsung ms-28,modded with ixtreme 1.2c
i did turn on my console many times without the dvd-drive plugged in.
i NEVER played a game before the official release date.

hope this helps in any way.

You completely missed the explanation, which is a bad calculation of the disc angle. The firmware allows values over 359, which is not valid (e.g., 359 plus a jitter of +1 should equal 0, not 360). C4E is updating the firmware to fix this. I'm sure the same calculation error affects both iXtreme and Xtreme users. It is because of jitter that the nature of the error is random, so it's no surprise that many users have played "bad Kreon" games without being banned.

Have a Hitachi59, Ixtreme & I also had 5 "bad kreon rips"...playin offline but connected with a silver acct now
-The Orange Box
-Halo 3 (played online when I had gold acct)
-Mass Effect
-Oblivion GOTY
-Thrillville
...not banned yet, but interesting enough, Those are games that I've sometimes have to open/close the tray a few times. Which is getting to be common among hitachi drives, and I have the worst time with Oblivion. Anyways, just thought it was kinda coincidental....

Very interesting!!!

People! Stop saying this! Signed in = Online.



I thought there was evidence that only people using kreon drives to rip games are getting banned?

That would make sense, because disc jitter is an issue ripping with a Kreon drive, but not with an MS25/MS28 drive.

dont forget that banning can also occur if you flashed your dvd-rom using your 360 power supply --> turning on your xbox without the dvd drive plugged in the console.
or by simply playing games before the official launch date.
there are many,many things that can get you banned.

Is there hard evidence to support this? I've had 3 modded boxes, all powered using the motherboard and they were never banned for this.

I don't buy that disc jitter explanation as is. The wrap from 360-to-0 makes no sense for unrepeatable results.


If that were the case, all COD4, Halo3, MassEffect backups would be 'bad' to the KreonChecker. Scanning over this thread its easy to see either a lot of people are lying or thats just not the case.

if you wont get banned,it will surely draw more attention to your console,and your log will be scanned with a higher priority.microsoft usually has a fixed number of how many consoles they will ban.and if youre detected that you had your console boot up without the dvd drive plugged in at least once,you will go up on the list,and your chance of getting banned go up as well.the "lucky ones" remain at the bottom of the list,and if microsoft bans enough people,those at the bottom will most likely survive the ban hammer.

few questions

i have never connected my xbox to live, i dont even have a live account...... my question is........is it possible that microsoft can detect i played a bad kreon game? or is it only possible for them to detect if i was connected to live

is there any way for me to delete the log that i played mass effect or half life 2 in my xbox?

Pretty sure that it has been proven that thats impossible since the xbox doesnt record this happening in any way shape or form.

Ok I have checked all of my newer games I extracted the ss.bin file from both the iso file on my hard drive and directly from the burned disk using the pioneer drive I burned them with all check out OK no bad ss.bin files at all and I have checked over 10 games I know that is not as many as the person who had 500 or some crazy number like that but it is a good number of the games that every one has been talking about all I can say is that I rip the game as slow as the software allows and I also burn the game using xbox backup creator at the slowest speed of 2.4x all my games are ripped by myself and I do not d/l scene relese games at all! I have only played cod4 1 day b4 it was released becasue the game stop was selling it early I hope this helps out

Keep up the good fight!