Quick q relating to this...

If you have already played some backups that are now deemed to be dangerous (offline - never had the network plugged in... ever) do you think it would be worth it or necessary to format the drive or clear the drive cache before you go online for the first time (after which you only play verified backups) or do you think they store this SS cache (if it even exists) somewhere besides the HDD (anyone with a core system been banned while playing offline?)

- Golden Compass - bad SS

Bad SS - Mass Effect

Played while xbox was not connected(was unplugged) except during one instance to check my live connection, in which the game was only in the drive, and not being played.

Not banned yet

Also mulleter as of now still does not fix my mass effect properly, yet still gives me an "ok"

Apparently its something with the ini files not being updated and still referring to bad ss files, so those of you who have bad rips will just have to wait for now.

And remember once this is fixed, you will need to clear to stealth files folder in mulleter so that the "bad" files aren't there anymore. Or you can simply uninstall/reinstall.

No...
HALO3 good SS
NBA2K7 good SS

but only call of duty 4 was played online but I think I was banned based on the backups because I had been playing on live for about 6 months all with original games and no ban.. COD4 comes out and I get online with it 1 week later BAN!




These are all the games I have played all the rest are originals but only COD4 was played online
and whenever I used a backup I would disconnect from live. Yea I know I had old firmware but ixtreme wasn't available at the time I have a hitachi 78

Drive: 163A, Kreon v1.00 firmware

360: iXtreme 1.2c, Samsung MS28

Bad rip: Assassin's Creed, played from start to finish while logged into Live

Not banned (yet).

I've tested all of my other discs (which include most of the "problematic" rips mentioned in this thread), and they're all good. I have never put a disc in my 360 that wasn't properly authored, or that had bad DMI/PFI, etc.

My Ace Combat 6 is reported as bad.

KreonChecker.exe
BAD:
Thrillville: Off The Rails
Conan
Mass Effect
The Orange Box

Waste of Verbatims

I tested most of my games and the one that gave a bad SS were Crackdown, Stranglehold & Dead or Alive 4.
Been a while since I played those, not banned (yet)

Ahh No....... I bought my console brand new flashed it about a week later with the only firmware available for the 78fk 1.6 only played originals on it until COD4, and HALO 3 came out but like I said only COD4 was played online every other game I played online FIFA 08, WE2007, ACE COMBAT6, where originals and only when I went with COD4 online was I banned so even though It checks out ok there still has to be something else..

So like I said 6 months with flashed firmware.. went online D/L demos played originals no ban

COD4 comes out play it for about 1 week did the play with the DEVS weekend banned on Monday

Can I ask a silly question?

This Kreon Checker looks at SS.bin files, so we are supposed to rip our SS again with Kreon FW to check to see if it is bad. Wouldnt we run the risk of getting a false negative this way, especially if the FW randomly doenst work?

Example -

1) you rip Halo 3 original and make a backup image using Kreon's FW (let's say this works correctly and the backup has the correct SS)
2) you rip your backup's SS out to check it, presumably using Kreon FW again but this time it has an error and rips it incorrectly.
3) You find out through Kreon Checker that your ripped SS is bad (even though the backup is not).

I dont see a way to reliably check your backups until a new FW is released. If I am missing something please let me know.

couple observations to share -

i have 2 sh-d162c drives (picked up a extra when they were going out and before the new f/w was out for the 162d) and it is still @ v.81. my other one has v1.00 of the f/w. now after i see all this banning i get a little more concerned as i just bought cod4. so i did a little test - w/ my sh-d162c v.081 and xbc 2.6 vs my sh-d162c v1.00 and xbc 2.7, the iso images would create different md5s - so there is something in the file that is different between the two even though file size and name were the same. i didn't do a compare in a hex editor, but different md5s = different image, even if just one byte (or bit).

2nd observation - could be the way people are burning their backups - hear me out. i have a pioneer 111d drive and w/ the pioneer 1.29 fw my burns would give a quality of 0, but when i updated my pioneer firmware to the region free dangerous brothers 1.29, the quality went to 94%+ on the same media - always verbatims burned @ 4x. i test my quality of backups on a benq pc drive, which is one of the best drives for drive quality tests.

why is this? i don't know but wanted to post this as it may or may not have some info somebody can use.

in conclusion i have only tested cod4 and it came back as good and i have not been banned and am running a sammy ms28 w/ 5.2c.

No you rip your game with whatever method you use..xbc then use XDVDMulleter to extract the SS out of the ISO you created...won't harm it..and then you check that SS with kreon checker..that will tell you if its good or not.. Hope that helps you

kane and lynch - good SS.bin

Assassins creed - good SS.bin

mass effect - Bad SS.bin

played all these on live and not banned as of yet but just abit curious does it matter what xbox 360 drive you have?

I don't think so... Drives don't have anything to do with it.... its either old firmware or bad backups
me i have a Hitachi 78 with xtreme 1.6 thats banned and I also have another Hitachi 47D with xtreme 2.3 that's not banned so...to answer your question If you flash your dvd drive with any firmware you risk being banned nothing is 100% safe that is the risk and its up to anyone who chooses to flash to either take it or leave it those who take it know it and should not complain when they are banned for that is the risk..

Important findings.

1: Both me and my brother have many of the same games.
2: Games were burned with two different burners. (I have a LH-20A1L Lighton, he has some crappy laptop burner)
3: My games are fine, but his are bad. (checked with KreonChecker).
4: The media we burn on is the same (Verbs)

But the important thing to notice here, the ss.bin should report the same findings with KreaonChecker regardless of which drive the backups were burned with.

Edit:

The games he burned are now being checked on the same drive he burned them with, and are coming up good. So if you are getting alot of bads with the KreanChecker, then try checking with drive u burned the games with.

I used my ordinary DVD-writer to rip ss files out with xdvdmulleter from allready burned dvd's, and checked with KreonChecker, all checked out ok, isn't this reliable enough?

No you rip your game with whatever method you use..xbc then use XDVDMulleter to extract the SS out of the ISO you created...won't harm it..and then you check that SS with kreon checker..that will tell you if its good or not.. Hope that helps you

you dont have to rip the disk to iso just extract the ss from the disk then use the kreon checker

Well looks like this has been bunked.

How many ppl so far have been banned in this wave?if its a small amount then maybe you should hold a poll asking those that have been banned in this wave if they have DL'ed any of the newer games from the web.

IF its a large amount,then you know it had to be the hardware or the software thats being put in the machine,but from what I've read this doesn't seem to be the case..


I Hardly know anything on the tech side of things like this,but if they could stop IX they would have at Halo3's launch.but since they didn't that tells me they cant stop it at this time,and that leads me to beleave the few that got banned this time DL'ed a "Rigged" ver of some game that MS or the like leaked..but since XBS rules says you cant talk about those things you'll never know for sure and might waste your time looking else where.thats why a poll should be run..

Naruto shows up good on my end. I might have autofix it in mulleter before. I don't remember.

Bad:
Mass Effect - not played
Rock Band - not played
Sega Rally Revo - not played


It is possible MS is only banning heavy users of Live. If you logged many hours on Live, most likely when you get banned, you'll repurchase another console.


*mod edit* removed release group name from quoted text.

Hi Iriez,


Bad:

Lego Star Wars
Call Of Duty 4
Halflife 2 - TOB
Mass Effect

Good:

Assassins Creed
Beowulf
Bigs
Blacksite Area 51
Colin McRea DiRT
Crash of the Titans
FEAR Files
Looney Tunes ACME Arsenal
The Simpsons Game
TimeShi(f)t

See ya on EFnet.


Greets,


TFX360

I know you don't have to rip the disk to an iso to get the SS but the guy was asking how he can get the SS after he was finished ripping a game.... maybe you should of read the post

I'm not banned
Use SH-D162C & XBC 2.7


Bad:
NONE

Good:

Assassins Creed
NBA 2K8
NBA LIVE 08
NHL 08
PGR4
The Orange Box
The Simpsons Game
SVR 08

I'm not banned.

Bad:
Mass Effect PAL
Orange Box NTSC

Good:
COD4 NTSC
PGR4 NTSC
BioShock NTSC

Not likely. I have a console that i soley dedicate to Live and had only played three games using Live; NHL08, Halo3, and COD4. I had played an estimated total of ~15 hours on live and was banned during this recent wave. Halo3 had a 'bad' SS according to this new criteria.



Caster.

I read all the post so far. It's interesting to know how everyone is checking their rips.

As I was reading there are obviously different ways to do it.

(What I mean is- does everyone keep a backup of there iso or are you re-ripping the backup or reading straight off the backup(and which drive you are using to read the backup))

or even re-ripping the original and checking it that way.

XDVD Mulleter 10.2 and Kreon Checker... that's all.


Greetz,


TFX.

Man you guys talking about releases just dont get it. Pack your bags.

So, i checked all my games.

Bad: Crackdown (and really old ones like King Kong, FifaRTW)

Good: C&C, COD4, FM2, GRAW2, Assassins Creed and others..

BUT thats not my point. I went through all the answers. How is it possible that the same Game ripped with the same drive, FW and App once is good and once is bad? Shouldn't a software just make every time the same shit? Or did i miss something?

What are the chances that there will be a new firmware version that will do a check and not boot games that dont pass this test? Is that even possible?

Thats funny.

Mass Effect: I extract the SS with a Liteon burner.
I extract the SS.BIN with Xbox Creator 2.60 = Kreon Checker says "Bad"
I extract the SS.BIN with Xbox Creator 2.70 = Kreon Checker says "Good"

I repeated this three times and the values are always the same.

After that I tested it with two different drives. Extracted with both versions and Kreon Checker says "good" to both. Which can I trust....?

LOL, This is absolutely hilarious to me! This summer I was suspended for 30-days after telling some mods here (not Iriez) that its possible Kreon could have flaws and that a CRC database was absolutely necessary. Iriez even tried to help out but got his peepee slapped for it (sorry again, I never said anything to anyone). Suspended for 30 days - then 6 months later, woo, oh boy, new flaw, people get banned, who could have seen that coming ?! Really not sour grapes, I could care less, its just funny.

That said,

Made a backup of H3 night of release, didn't exist in database but I played online regardless. Wouldn't load certain levels so I went back and checked the disc, must have been a bad burn, but also had the wrong SS. I corrected it to match what others had and burned a new copy... So...

Halo3 - Bad SS, Bad burn, Played till Oct 10

Halo3 - Good SS, good with Kreon played till Oct 25

COD4 - good SS, all I've been playing since launch

Not Banned.


Also, as a note to people who say 'played online' or not. If you have your ethernet cable plugged in and logged into Live - you ARE playing online, try not to confuse the issue by saying what you 'think' you did or did not do.



I was wondering about a similar test, but that pretty much answers it right there.

The note from the 2.70 changelog is:
- Added support for firmware SH-D163B and SH-D162D of the drives Kreon;

I'm guessing its Kreon version + drive version + other modifier dependent ?

just checked my backups ..

Bioshock
Halo 3
NHL2008
Orange Box
Guitar Hero 3
Call of Duty 4
Kane and Lynch
Assasin Creed
Rock Band

Are all fine with the Kreon checker ..

On a side not, I used the 0.81 firmware and then the 1.0 when it was available. I got the C model and I made all my backups .. not download on the net .. Not banned

I understand what you are saying but I think you misunderstood what I was asking.

When you use XRip - you are still going through the Kreon Firmware on the drive to get the ISO to your PC. We know that this firmware might be bad. So there is a chance that your copy is good but ripping out the SS would show you a different SS than is on the copied disc. Anyone following me or did I lose you again?

I am banned. I checked the bins of the games on the list that I had played. The following came up with bad kreon checks:

Halo 3
Mass Effect
The Orange Box

Good:
COD4

All ss.bin files were extracted using Mulleter 10.2

I have the exact same problem.

Mass effect SS extracted with XDVDMulleter b10: BAD
Mass effect SS extracted with XBCR 2.7b0265: GOOD

So... which one is correct?

I'm using my DVR-112 to extract the SS files from my backups; do I need to use my kreon to extract as well? Maybe that could account for the discrepancy. But then if you use a kreon to extract, wouldn't it be affected by the bug and possibly extract a bugged SS from a good backup? Argh.

My full info:

ME mullet: BAD
ME xbcr: GOOD
halo3 mullet: GOOD
PGR4 mullet: GOOD
Lego starwars mullet: BAD
Lego starwars XBCR: GOOD
Assassins Creed mullet: GOOD

I am not currently banned.

thanks hack my 360 but if you read further on it was YOU who was wrong

I see I see maybe I was mistaken lets never fight again LoL I didn't see the part about
extracting the SS with the kreon drive sorry to come off on you like that

Ok, so reading through this thread it seems that

(1) Banned people played a Kreon-bad copy of Halo 3
(2) Some Kreon-bad Halo 3 people are unbanned (so far)
(3) All other Kreon-bad games show no real pattern

So, I ask everybody with a Kreon-bad Halo 3 backup:

Did you play Halo 3 while connected to Live after the November 13 Xbox Live downtime?

I know I'll be written off as a conspiracy theorist, but from the readings here and my own experience (several Kreon-bad rips, that'll teach me not to keep my firmware up to date) that the only consistent pattern is Halo 3 (which Microsoft would know the ins and outs of) with a bad Kreon rip.

Of course, the ultimate test would be for somebody with an unbanned console to go online with a Kreon-bad Halo 3 today and see what happens.

Tested PG4 PAL backup. Extracted SS from backup itself with XboxBackupCreator 2.7.0.265, two times. I had two different SS, both marked as "good Kreon" by KreonChecker!!! Then I tried with XDVDMulleter beta10.2, I got the same SS of the second try with XboxBackupCreator. Aleatory fault in first SS extraction? I used the DVD reader of my laptop, an Optiarc AD-7560A. Bye!!!

Tested PG4 PAL backup. Extracted SS from backup itself with XboxBackupCreator 2.7.0.265, two times. I had two different SS, both marked as "good Kreon" by KreonChecker!!! Then I tried with XDVDMulleter beta10.2, I got the same SS of the second try with XboxBackupCreator. Aleatory fault in first SS extraction? I used the DVD reader of my laptop, an Optiarc AD-7560A. Bye!!!

I have just checked these backups that i got from the net with Kreon Checker and they are all good rips , i have been playing them online for around 1 month and still not banned but i have layed off xbox live for a bit since the new bannings started.

PGR4 - Good
Halo 3 - Good
Call Of Duty 4 - good
Need for speed : pro street - Good

seems to me that people who have recently used kreon drive to backup games are the ones most likely to get banned compared to the people that download them.

I'm starting to think this is Micro$ofts intention. If we don't ban them, we will just keep changing the way we check and soon all people that back up their owned games will quit.

i have a bad kreon halo 3, never played it with ethernet cable plugged in becuase i figured that would be the game to base bans, and i still got banned.......(have not played it since sept.)

oops

Looking at this thread, are we even sure there were actually people banned? It looks like the majority of people who back up their games weren't banned.

hi i am new to this kreon lark, but when i backup any of my games i use xbc 2.7 to extract the iso,then i also use this to extract the ss.bin of my rip.From what i am reading am i doing this wrong,should i use XDVDMulleter to extract the ss.bin?
I think someone should post the proper procedure for backing up your original game disk
I have a sh d162 d with kreon 1.00
I use a nec 7173a and pioneer vr 212 to burn the backups always good burns with both!
i have three of the original games listed so i ripped cod4 with xbc 2.7 and then extracted the ss.bin with it and checked it with kreon checker,it states good?
is there just a bit of cofusion as to
1.the age kreon firmwares
2.the exact software used and how old or new
3.If people do own the games they are saying are bad or downloaded them from someone who didnt have a clue what they where doing was not the desired way of doing it?
I dont kow so many mixed results diffent drives soft etc i think people keeping there firmwares and software up to date would help all in possibly sorting out a fix a bit quicker if at all.
Fee free to shout at me i am new to this lot!

BAD:

Rayman
Shrek the 3rd
Thrillville
HalfLife - Orange box - I have played this heavily while network cable plugged in.....on all 3 360's!

Still not banned. (yet!)

good:

COD4
Halo3

ALL my 360's flashed using the power from the 360 itself.

Here is somthing that I just found out if you are using Xbox Backup Creator to extract your SS files from your discs. You have to close XBC each time you want to extract a SS file from a disc or else if you dont every SS file you exract and check with KreonChecker will give you the same result as the first disc you extracted the SS from with XBC. For example if you extract the SS from one game with XBC and check it with KreonChecker and it tells you the SS is good and you keep XBC open and then insert another disc and exract the SS and check it with KreonChecker it will still tell you that the SS is good even though the SS for that game may be bad.

Just a little info I thought that I would share with everyone.

When I try to run the Kreon Checker out a window that puts DLL CORRUPTED. Do you know how I can fix it when I run the program?

Thanks.

Has anyone been bothering to follow this thread, because i have been reporting publically for weeks now about this KREON/SS failed stealth problem and few people bothered to reply even our Mods?:

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=630621&st=15&gopid=4160462&#entry4160462

therefore 2 weeks ago I rented ALL of the 360Games that were released just prior and immediately after Halo 3 (all the big titles in last 2 months--20 games altogether)...and began a series of intense beta testing/ripping/burning and came up with some interesting observations since I knew there was a STEALTH problem with the lastest games..and IMHO it was NOT accidental on MS's part..this was planned I have NO DOUBT about it....I was expecting them to start rebuilding the newer 360 games to challenge the way XBC and scrotom and KREON were building them..this EXACTLY what the satellite TV providers do to combat piracy on their access cards.


My library is over 500 XBOX/XBOX360 games..I own them all..and don't ask me how please...I doubt there is anyone who has this many or even close as I do....execept for the coders themselves.

1. XBC2.7 is NOT ripping correctly--do NOT use it...its flawed serioulsy..and i never trusted REDLINE when
he failed to publically acknowledge his mistake with the SplitVid fiasco...
2. Kreon v.81 or v1.00 makes no difference..results are same IMHO
3. Scrotom3.4 is the best tool NOW for ripping these newer games..it correctly builds the ISO/Stealth.
4. DVDMulleter 10.2 beta fixes many problems with STEALTH..us it ALWAYS to repair STEALTH
5. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make them SplitVid images and NEVER use PAL rips on NTSC consoles.

The one game that Scrotom3.4 flashed with Kreon v1.00 fails to rip correctly is PGR4...."Kreon Check" will still report it as "BAD" even if DVDMulleterv10.2 beta repaired it intially...not sure why

so even if XBC2.7, Scrotom3.4 and DVDmulleter10.2beta ALL says its "GOOD"...it can still fail the KREON CHECK string analysis...and PGR4 is the one of these newer games that still will fail despite the GREEN light from all our ripping tools...I have more PGR4 orignals to start tetsing to see if they ALL are effected this way.

Regarding, the scene releases, I also downloaded the top ten(10) newer 360 games and they were plagued with numerous errors..no SplitVid, poor checksums, invalid stealth....they can fail in many respects...never use SCENE REWLESE..the kids that rip them are newbies and make mistakes.

the only way to properly rip these newer 360 games is to do it yourself in this order EXACTLY:

1. scrotom3.4 flashed with Kreonv1.00 (or v.81 makes no difference)
2. run stealth checks with Scrotom3.4 and pay close attention to video layer 0: do NOT use XBC2.7
3. run CRC/stealth check with XDVMulleter beta 10+..do AUTOREPAIR and verify the entire ISO.
4. dump that tiny 2kb STEALTH.ini file with XDVDmulleter 10beta and check it with KREON CHECKER...
do NOT use XBC2.7 to dump that tiny STEALTH.INI..it does NOT do it properly on some games.

this is as good as you can get..and be careful with PGR4..it can easily fail despite the GREEN light from all our ripping tools...use scrotom3.4 and DVDMulleter 10.2 beta and try NOT to use XBC2.7...and always SplitVid (someday MS may check for that)

also I test only with an Hitachis using latests Ixtreme..on my 79FL that I physcially dumped the surface mounted DVD chip so I could get its key then resoldered it back onto its mother board...the 79FL drives are the hardest to hack which is EXACTLY why I purchased it...since very few people pirate the 79FL drives in their 360's...and NO I am NOT yet banned..but I play on-line all the games...

so guys this problem has been know for weeks, it should have been talked about much sooner than this...see that thread I posted above..I was NOT alone in my findings...and its nice to be proven right since it validates my skills of beta analysis...and the ban was EXACTLY on schedule and I was fully expecting it when I discovered this problem with newer 360 rips. (I was NOT alone BTW)..I have been publically commenting in two(2) of the more popular SCENE RELEASE forums about these ripping discrepancies...but the members at these torrent site sare not very educated and most of my technical reporis were ignored...if you use SCENE RELEASE it mans your probably a newbie poiorly skilled in the technical aspects of this game..so NEVER NEVER NEVER use scene release.

owning 500 originals or having access to them gives me a chance to test many more permutations AND I TEST EVERYTHING "SIX-WAYS FROM SUNDAY"...so my findings above are gospel IMHO...

also,
I have owned 4 XBOX360's in the last 18 months and many suffered the RROD as one might expect...now use excelusely only 79FL drives