Update on recent bannings, altered C/R timer, affects Kreon rips Posted by Iriez | December 2 22:57 EST | News Category: Xbox360

A followup regarding the xbox live bannings that occured a few weeks ago... Commodore4eva has noticed a recent change in games with regards to the c/r timings. It appears to have started in games a few weeks before halo 3, that will give a slightly altered Security Sector file when ripped using a kreon drive. We have tried to replicate the error with a samsung drive in 0800 mode with no success. This slightly altered data would be very easy to detect, and would enable microsoft to use as critera for bannings. We believe this is the result of the recent bannings. We are still not sure if this was a intentional move by Microsoft's part, or a coincedental bug within kreon. As a side note, kreon will not give this altered data every time, but appears to happen randomly. Here is a list of a few games that appear to have the possibility of giving altered SS data when ripped with kreon: Halo 3 Mass Effect Call Of Duty 4 Spiderman friend or foe Thrillville Project Gotham Racing 4 NHL 08 Half Life 2 The Orange Box Oblivion GOTY Edition This is just a small list of findings so far. There will be a full list maintained as time goes on (likely found in the forum thread below). Kreon, Redline99 and commodore4eva are all involved with this progress, so there will be a solution in the near future, whether its a kreon firmware, XBC, or firmware update to resolve the issue. If you have recently been banned, and would like to confirm whether one of your backups has a bad kreon SS, please use xdvdmulleter or any other program to extract the SS, and run Kreon Checker (compliments of #Stealth360 on efnet) on the SS, it will tell you whether it is a good or bad kreon rip. We are trying to verify that everyone who was banned had a bad kreon SS. As we find out more, the xdvdmulleter database will be updated to fix any bad Security Sectors on specific games.

I would like to emphasize that this is a thread devoted to quality information regarding xbox live bannings in relation to the altered kreon rips. As a moderator of this forum, I would like to apologize for all the other moderators who have incorrectly blamed anyone who got banned. Considering this new light, it appears that the users of this forum who have backed up their own games (recently) with a kreon drive are just as much at risk, if not more likely at risk, than any joe blow who downloads games off the internet.

I am going to heavily moderate the thread, so here is the list of what is allowed:

Technical discussion regarding the news.
Posts relating to your xbox live bans, and whether the backups you recently played had a bad kreon SS.

All other information will likely be deleted, so dont get mad when you find your post removed

I had a feeling that the bannings were somehow related to those who ripped their games with the kreon drive rather than using the xbox to do it.


It makes sense that no PC drive is going to read an xbox game exactly the same as an xbox drive would.

So, just using xdvdmulleter to check the rip vs the online database isn't enough? You need to use this extra kreon checker, too?

-DucK!

To clarify right off the bat,

Is it known whether M$ has been logging these checks and finally putting the information into play (and bans are finally coming down), or is this during game usage while on live recently? I'm willing to ask this stupid question so that it's not asked 1,000,000,000 more times in this thread.

As we go through the mulleter database and remove those bad SS's, and replace them with valid ones, yes, autofix in mulleter will resolve the problem. Kreon checker is a alternative to check your rips NOW, to see if the problem resides.




We cannot know anything for sure, however we highly speculate that this is the reason. One of the reasons for this thread is to put it against the public to see if it is correct. People who have been banned recently should check and post her to verify/deny the speculation.

i have been banned and have verified with kreon checker that i have 3 bad games.

-Halo 3
-Mass Effect
-Half Life

I have 4 games with the bad kreon ss

- SMackdown vs RAW 2008
- Timeshift
- Mass effect
- PGR 4

I haven't played any of the backups besides Smackdown vs. Raw 2008 and when i did play that backup i was connected to live, but it did not result in ban i played that game today while connected to live and not banned. Do not know if that is relevant.

Is it known how long before the database is updated and corrected?

I have 2 games with Bad SS:

Mass Effect
The Orange Box

Not Banned yet. Been playing Mass Effect pretty much every day since it came out. Guess we will see what happens.

just checked all my backups. mass effect was the only one with a bad SS. i HAVE NOT been banned from LIVE. however the last time i played mass effect was a few days before the bannings happened and yes i was online at the time. i guess i got lucky!

I have not been banned and just checked for games I have ripped after Halo 3 and got 3 bad results.

-Cars: Mater-National
-College Hoops 2K8
-Project Gotham Racing 4

So far the theory seems like it's not validating. 3 people not banned that have used bad games...i wonder if they will be a small percentage.

some folks escaped the first ban wave and this is essentially banning based on the same bad information

i believe M$ had to change something, as only newer games are giving bad rips

i just got my kreon drive with v.1 fw and im totally new to this so this will probably be a dumb question

if i extract the ss file from an iso file, so I have to insert it again?

btw, just checked halo 3, good ss file

i survived the first ban before ixtreme and played bad backups online. this time, not so lucky....

No. It'll leave ur ISO intact.

Checked the SS in my backup done with a sh-d162c with firmware v.81
I never got around to updating the firmware.

Timeshift
Halo 3
COD 4
Fear files
Mass effect
Orange box
Assassins creed

All checked good with Kreon Checker

following checked with kreonchecker
have been told to be bad:

command_and_conquer_3 (played, 3+ months ago)
ghost recon advanced warfighter 2 pal (never played)
Project_Gotham_Racing_4 (never played)
rain_vampire (played 3+ months ago)
Tony Hawk Proving Ground (never played)


all of them are ripped with the version befor kreon 1.0 until 1.0 was released
so tony hawk was ripped with 1.0 kreon

p.s.: halo3 and COD4 are ok ripped with 1.0

p.p.s: NOT BANNED!

Not banned so far,

I've only used backups offline, heres what I've checked:

Bad:
Spiderman 3
Mass Effect
NHL 2k8

Good (recent games):
Halo 3
COD 4
PGR 4
Forza 2
NHL 08
Oblivion (not GOTY edition tho)
Ace Combat 6
Madden 08
NBA 2k8
Tiger Woods 08

Not banned, but confirming 4 backups with bad SS:

- Timeshift
- The Orange Box
- Mass Effect
- Halo 3

I was once on Live a few days prior to the bannings with my bad Mass Effect backup, but haven't used it online or even in my console since that day, especially after hearing about the bannings.

Would these altered SS's explain why Schtrom360 was giving me a hard time when trying to extract the SS of Halo 3? I switched to Xbox Backup Creator 2.6 just to get passed that error.

Running TssTCorp SH-D162-C TS05

Ripped NBA Live 98 using Schtrom360Xtract 3.4

Checks SS with Kreon Checker and get Bad Kreon Rip.

For info seems like another game to add to the list.

My mass effect and COD4 work fine though...All ripped with same settings and programs etc.

Where can i download this kreon checker? i've had a scan round the net and can't find it

Hmm... Question.

Does this include "bad kreon rips" before the last bannings as well, before the recent ones?

The reason I ask is that I haven't played a backup since the last bannings, before the recent ones occurred...

So I've been playing originals for 2+ months, and I just randomly get banned one day.

I have not been banned.

I have the following games that show bad kreon rip;

Guitar Hero III
Half-Life 2 Orange Box
MotoGP 07
NHL 2K8
Rock Band
Mass Effect
Thrillville

I have played Halo 3 on XBL.
I have played GH III, and Thrillville locally while signed into XBL.
I have not played the remainder yet.

orange box failed the check.

played the backup twice about a few weeks before bannings started and have not been banned.

Not banned, games with bad SS played:
Rock Band * Online

Oblivion GOTY(D1 Only) *offline
Mass Effect *offline
Timeshift *offline

I was just wondering, do rips with bad kreon match up to the CRC of the original (as good rips should)?

I am not banned.

My high profile games:

Halo = Good SS
Orange Box = Bad
Mass Effect = Bad
COD4 = Good

All played opening day.

I just extracted Rock Band scene release and it was confirmed as a bad kreon rip.

As with every other ban-related thread, I wonder why all the people post "not banned"-information. It does not mean anything that people are NOT banned.
They could be flagged for banning, they could have been lucky, we simply don't know at this point.

So we should focus on the people who DID get banned and see how many of those got bad kreon disks.

orange box good ss
assassins creed good ss

maybe it has to do with the fw of the kreon? mine is at 1.0

This is pure speculation:

MS probably only selected a random few players with bad CRC info or bad SS kreon backups and banned them during that first wave a few weeks back. They only banned a "few" people to test out their theory to make sure no one with an unmodified 360 was banned. By limiting it to a selected group, it saves their asses if only a few unmodified 360s get banned as it probably won't hit the news.

I haven't heard of any "legit" 360s getting banned during that wave (other than people lying that they did), so if MS deems that ban wave as a successful theory in banning, they will release a bigger bomb soon (probably the 4th). For those of you who have already played a "bad backup," its probably already too late, as they probably have already tagged you and awaiting to release the big nuke.

And if none of this is true, by releasing this Kreon information, MS just gained new ideas on how to detect bad backups, so its already a lose\lose situation for us and will likely be reripping our backups and reburning.

End of speculation

Or perhaps it's the latest Kreon firmware that had the bug in it?

Btw, I escaped both waves and did have some games with the bad bytes. Perhaps they weren't checking for it and I got lucky, or next time around, I'll get the hammer. Oh well.

Oh... and here's my speculation. MS bans before large upgrades to reduce bandwidth and upgrade troubleshooting. I doubt anything will happen on the 4th, but I suspect next spring, we'll get the 3rd hammer.


I completely disagree... knowing the details of individuals who are not banned is equally as relevant as knowing those who are.

if anyone thinks that even for a second, that MS is finding out about this from posting this information, then they are definitely not aware of how this works. The C/R of the dvd drive is the fundamental authentication method for all disks to play in the 360. Any alteration or failed response to any 360 dvd rom challenge, is the first and foremost method of identifying non retail disks being used. The fact that kreon failed on some instances is likely the exact reason the bannings happened. These errors ranged from individual releases to scene releases, and even the most cautious users got hit.

I agree with you that those that didnt get hit, were just fortunate to not have been in the test wave when the hammer was dropped, and that after analyzing their data, it should become a new standard practice. Especially with the update next week. (specualtion on my part obviosuly as well)

I have 3 xbox 360s. one got banned, and i can identify that only this one box played my backups that my testing show any bad SS rips. 2 of 15 games it played show bad SS.bin data from kreon rips. The other 2 boxes have played some shared games, but none of the ones that i have identified as bad ss files. (just random luck i guess)

Great findings from the power that be, and i thank them for shedding light on the cause of all this.

Ok I got banned.

Only backup i played before ban with bad ss was rock band.

I have bad ss on:
Mass Effect
Orange Box

All other where fine i was logged into xbox live but didn't ever play a backup online.

Played Rock Band the night before I got banned.

ok i have a Samsung SH-D162C TS04 (kreon 0.81) and these are backups from it.

good ss:
all pro football 2k8
bioshock
dirt
godfather: the game
graw 2
madden08
mass effect
ncaa 08
hl2: orange box
pgr4
splinter cell double agent
wwe raw vs smackdown 08

no bad ss

not banned

bad ss:

mass effect - not played live

orange box - played live

lego starwars tcs - played live

not banned

Backed up with the kreon firmware.

GOOD:
guitar hero 3
kayne & lynch
call of duty 4
perfect dark zero
call of duty 4

BAD:
college hoops 2008
rock band
halo 3
the orange box

i play all of these games on 3 different xbox 360's, all running the latest firmware.
none of them are banned. all played on xbox live as well.

Of the previously listed games, I have the following:

Halo 3
Call of Duty 4

Each of these have been checked and have a Good SS per KreonChecker.

I have been playing online recently, and have NOT been banned as of yet.

**I will be checking the rest of my game database soon to see if I have any with bad SS.

That's a data goldmine right there. Just the kind of thing we've been looking for.

Which two Kreon-defective games were played on this banned 360?

check 24 games backed up with the kreon firmware

these are the bad

mass effect
rock band
lego star wars tcs
the orange box

all of which have been booted on a non banned box

will check more and update

Ive got a few that are bad, but never played the backups... only the originals... so il leave those out....

the only backups that were used was COD4 and Halo 3... both checked good and i have NOT been banned...

beginning to think this theory is true

Halo 3 - Bad Rip

PGR-4 - Good Rip
Sega Rally - Good Rip
Forza- Good rip

Drive - SHd162C TS04

Not Banned.

Banned with xtreme 1.6

Checked

COD4 only game played online
FIFA 08
SKATE all checked good SS using kreon 0.81

Maybe they are checking the IP addresses of people those who download of those sites then when you
log on to live they ban you based on your IP address??? just another possibility

well this right here blows this possibility right out of the water then, no? According to him, he was banned and never touched the system with a backup that has a bad SS. So then that can't be the flaw right??

HERE ARE SOME BAD GAMES

CARS MATAR NATION
MASS EFFECT
HALFLIFE 2
CONAN
DYNASTY WARRIORS GUNDAM
FATAL INERTIA
LEGOSTARWARS COMPLETE SAGA
OBLIVION GOTY
RAPALA PRO FISHING
SPIDERMAN FOF
TETRIS EVOLVED
THRILLVILLE

REGARDS

If its not in the database yet then the Kreon Checker would show the check as Bad correct??
Even though it may still be a good image and the ss checks out?

So far I checked all of my Games and I have the following with Bad Kreon .bin's:

Mass Effect
The Orange Box

I haven't been banned from XBL yet but I will update this board if anything happens.

are these the only 3 backups you have played on that console?

9 Bad SS's, and not banned.

Assassins creed is played constaintly as well, and also online.